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| Mapped with Hexographer |
This is first draft for the Trollhattan area (still showing the swapped tags Trollhattan/Limn). Coastlines still are problematic for me. The challenge occurs when trying to emulate coastlines from a larger-scale overlay. I did some rough manual touch-ups to clean the mess.
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| Finalized by Thorfinn Tait |
I posted below my "work map," (see below) which helps me keep track of the various population densities when I tally the number of hexes and their types. Everything is relative to the terrain type--in other words a borderland hex of farmland does not have the same population as a borderland hex of hills; trails, rivers, a coastline, light forest, heavy forest, (etc,) all have various impacts on the population in a single hex. Naturally, settled or suburban hexes have more population than borderlands, let alone wilderness. Urban centers and fortifications come on top of those figures. Just in case you wondered.
Just for Håvard, I added the general racial mix for Trollhattan below, and the actual racial makeup of the garrison based in Limn, just above (next to the Limn header).
Nice neighborhood!
Please note that some of the above contents may not display when using Explorer. It does when using Firefox however.
Wonderful! You're certainly keeping me busy, Bruce. :-D
ReplyDeleteWell, yeah... Btw, I can already see one area that needs to be fixed. The original map (24 miles scale), shows mountains in the area surrounding "Bar-Ydul." Sorry. I can fix that before you mess with this map.
DeleteAnd there should have been a road going from Limn, south along the coast, to the edge of the map. I have it showing as a trail.
DeleteFixed.
DeleteYay! :)
ReplyDeleteAre all the humanoids represented in Trollhattan? Its interesting to see orcs, goblins and the like described as "farmers" and "townsfolk". :D
Would you like to see the racial mix for Trollhattan? :-)
DeleteJust posted your racial mix. No problem... Look toward the bottom of the post.
DeleteI looked up the dimensions of hexes, and found a figure of 200 width to 173 height ratio. Run the figures and you get 42 height giving 48.55 width. If Hexographer is rounding, this could be where the hex distortion is creeping in. Having said that, it seems to me there's much more distortion than half a pixel per hex - the hexes look rather slim even at a glance.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, I bought a Hexographer Pro license to allow me to help you (and others) make maps of Mystara using it. I should be able to provide you with a set of my hexes, and perhaps more - if I could give you a map with the coastline already there to work with, you wouldn't have to deal with it at all.
Thanks for getting that license and focusing more in depth on those pesky hexes. I guess if you could tell me the actual/best hex proportions (using Hexographer) that would help alleviate most of that distortion. Part of the problem also resides in exactly where I cut off the overlay on its top and left sides. I can't actually move it once it is loaded on the screen, so if it's not perfectly cut in the first place, it's very hard to align it with the blank hexgrid. On a small map, I can sort of get away with it. On a large map, the distortion gets worse, regardless of size adjustments to the overlay.
DeleteThanks Bruce! I like Minotaurs being part of the mix! :)
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome. The presence of monsters with multiple Hit Dice causes discrepancies with the worksheet as it was originally designed for predominantly human or demi-human troops.
DeleteYou may have noticed an entry in the army list stating 265 HD of monsters. These do not include the listed orcs/trolls/minotaurs/etc, which are part of the basic racial mix of Trollhattaners. The worksheet counts those 265 HD as 265 "people." That's of course inaccurate. The 265 HD could be two really big monsters of 530 kobolds for all we know. You have to adjust the total army numbers accordingly.
Maybe one day, I'll redesign the army page on the basis of HD and not "people" which would make a lot more sense in a D&D environment. That's retrospective design for you!
I'm working on the map, and so far I must say I'm very impressed. Your coastline is very close to the original, and there are no alignment problems I can see. It's definitely an A+++!
ReplyDeleteOne thing: I noticed in LoZompatore's article on official Alphatian info that the names Limn and Trollhattan were switched on the Dawn of the Emperors maps. Sure enough, the text has Kingdom of Limn, of which the capital is Trollhattan, and all the other sources which mention it have Limn as the kingdom name too. So I guess we should switch them round.
You're absolutely right. It did feel a little odd when I pasted the Trollhattan label onto the scroll. It' funny because I did miss the error when I read the text entry in DotE. Darn it. Thanks for making the correction.
DeleteAlas, the name Trollhattan doesn't fit too well with the other towns' linguistic name theme.
DeleteTrollhattan can be the Alphatianized named of whatever original name you can invent.
DeleteHervé
Salut Hervé!
DeleteI thought more than once to include an "original" name in smaller characters underneath the main tag to get around that issue. I'm just worried this might clutter the map (or allow me to abuse of that approach!)
I just finished the replica. This time I've been more faithful to my replica rules, and kept to your design as much as possible within the usual mapping rules. The upcoming updated map will adjust the coastlines marginally and add a couple of features to the edge of the map, as well as changing things to conform with the 8 mile per hex mapping standard. In particular I think the mountains should all be simple mountains hexes, because the single mountain hex saw only very limited use in this scale. I will also extend some of the terrain up to the coastline in a few more places.
ReplyDeleteI've used a rock shelter symbol from the Savage Coast maps for the Gates of Zul. Would it be better to make a new, more henge-like symbol?
Looks very, very good. Thanks! The symbol you picked for the Gates of Zul is just fine. Weren't you going to switch the names Limn and Trollhattan?
DeleteI forgot the link!
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8.png&oldid=737
Here's a preliminary version of the land use/population density overlay map. I just threw it together very quickly, so it still needs a lot of work. It's a toss up between keeping the terrain visible and making the overlay clear, and I suspect that changing the background map to shades of grey may help solve the problem.
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8-land-use.png&oldid=741
Half-tone b/w should work better, although I would have the B/W symbols (towns, villages, forts, trails, etc) still show up in 100% black on the color overlay. What do you think?
DeleteUpdates to both maps:
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8.png&oldid=744
http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8-land-use.png&oldid=743
Were you going to add the legend as well?
DeleteVery, very cool.
ReplyDeleteGeographic Map -- the bridge symbol is missing, near Trollhattan. Weren't you going to change these single mountain symbols to the standard "three-peak" one?
Population Density Map -- wow! I love it. There are three gray hexes in the north, near Ishme and Baenlil. Weren't these borderland?
Oops... I've added the bridge in, it'll appear online at the next pass. Good catch as usual.
ReplyDeleteThe mountain changes and a couple of other things are coming in the updated map. I still have to do a few things to it before it's finished - mainly straightening out the trade routes and revising the coastline.
About the population density map - the missing hexes weren't marked on your working map, so I left them blank. Should I go ahead and mark them as borderland?
I must have skipped them. Bummer. I'll have another look. Thanks. Yes, by all means, code them as borderlands.
DeleteI posted the population density map here:
Deletehttps://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByHsRdpWU3qeTUw4dHFOVWc3R2s
Oops -- wrong folder... This was for Stonewall.
DeleteHere we go - my updated map:
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Limn-8.png&oldid=746
I have yet to do the coastlines, but everything else should be up to spec.
Bruce, you may be a little confused by my replica/updated thing. Basically I'm treating your maps the same as I treat the original maps. First I make a replica which duplicates the original map as much as possible, but using my own art assets. (I often match the original art, but in the case of Hexographer it doesn't seem necessary.) This replica is useful to have around for reference, and it also acts as a base for the next stage, which is an updated map. The purpose of my updated maps is to incorporate other information, merging multiple sources into one map and correcting any mistakes. The resulting maps should be 100% compatible with all the other updated maps, and these are the backbone of my Atlas of Mystara project.
Generally I stick to official sources, and label fan-made works as "Unofficial" on the rare occasions when I do deal with it. But as far as I'm concerned you have carte blanche to make new material which I consider to be official.
So to sum up: replica maps are replicas of the original creator's maps, while updated maps are updated versions which obey my Atlas of Mystara mapping conventions.
Gotcha. No problem. I'm about to post Stonewall--just in case you felt under-employed! :D
DeleteA technical issue: I'm not able to see on my PC any of the dominion stats published so far (Ambur, Limn, Stonewall), except for the Racial Mix / Ethnic Origins addendum above. Any help?
ReplyDeleteGreat, great work, by the way (even if I don't see the stats)! :D
Is anyone else having that problem with the stats?
DeleteIt won't display for me in IE but comes up in Firefox
DeleteWeird... Weird and irritating.
DeleteI get the same result if I use Explorer. The answer is: dump Explorer, use Firefox! Just kidding. :-)
DeleteI can always upload a bunch of these stats separately after I'm done updating them, as jpg illos. I just hope that the process does not render them too fuzzy to read.
Just found up that Google Chrome works correctly, too. IE8 does not show the stats.
Delete"Just for Håvard, I added the general racial mix for Trollhattan below,"
ReplyDeleteMuch appreciated! :D
I have to update the stats. I noticed army data that didn't display correctly in the summary sheet above. Will fix that today. Sorry for the inconvenience.
ReplyDeleteI'd posted an older data sheet. Fixed now.
ReplyDeleteLots of updates.
ReplyDeleteFirst, both replica maps:
http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8-land-use.png&oldid=754
http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8-land-use.png&oldid=754
They just had minor updates, most notably the addition of the missing bridge symbol.
I've also finished my updated maps. I changed the coastline to be more faithful to the original 24 mile per hex map while keeping the details you've added. The result is a little more land around the coast, but I kept all the important details (such as ports) intact. I went ahead and marked the new hexes (and fragments of hexes) with their appropriate population density.
http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Limn-8.png&oldid=747
http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Limn-8-land-use.png&oldid=756
Obviously I hope you are going to go with my updated maps, although doing so will involve some recalculation of demographics to reflect the slightly increased territory.
I got the first link wrong. It should be this one:
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-limn-8.png&oldid=755
Here's my replica of your Bay of Limn map.
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bh-bay-of-limn-2.png&oldid=760
Updated map to follow. It shouldn't take long.
Okay, I ended up having some fun with the updated map. I could have taken it further but there are other maps waiting in line. Bruce, let me know what you think, or if there's anything you want me to add.
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Bay-of-limn-2.png&oldid=761
While working on the Stonewall map I noticed a couple of little additions to the bottom left of this map, so I've posted a new version of my updated map:
ReplyDeletehttp://mystara.thorf.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:Limn-8.png&oldid=770
Added Trollhattan's city summary at the bottom of the post.
ReplyDelete